Ambassador David Satterfield served as the US special envoy for Middle East Humanitarian issues until April this year.

He joined us from Houston where he’s the Director of the Baker Institute at Rice University.

Matt Frei: In all this discussion about geopolitics and internal Israeli politics, it is easy to forget, but one should not forget, that in Gaza people are still dying. Kids are still dying every day. We’re approaching, I think, a death toll of 40,000 now. How depressing is that for you as someone who had to try and deal with this diplomatic… appalling crisis for the last ten months?

David Satterfield: It is appalling, and there is no way to justify the deaths of innocents, Palestinians or Israelis. What the international community has done, what it needs to continue doing, is exerting every possible effort to – as President Biden has said – bring this war to a close. That’s for the sake of the Palestinians, for the sake of Israelis, for the region as a whole and for the international community. And it is, as you have commented, interrelated to the challenge posed by Iran, by Hezbollah. It is essential that a ceasefire, the negotiations for a ceasefire, move ahead. Now, whether or not Hamas elects Yahya Sinwar, to participate directly in the talks tomorrow, or to have a way to register his views and reactions to what is discussed, we will have to see. But if he is indeed concerned for the welfare of the Palestinian people, as he has proclaimed so loudly, then staying out of these talks, delaying the ability to achieve a ceasefire is certainly not a validation of his position. So what we’ve done is mobilised every resource diplomatically in the region, multinationally, with our key partners in Europe, including the UK, to send a very clear message to all parties. I underscore to all parties that a ceasefire is strategically in the interests of everyone and no one, no one should …

Matt Frei: I want to get on to America’s role in this in a minute. But just on Israel, do you agree with Ehud Olmert that Prime Minister Netanyahu has been trying to perpetuate this war in order to keep himself in power?

David Satterfield: I believe it is incumbent on the Israeli government to do everything in its power to see a ceasefire take place as rapidly as possible. There is no Israeli strategic interest now served by a continuation of the kind of fighting that we have seen in Gaza since the beginning of May.

Matt Frei: But we’ve heard those words from you, from Antony Blinken, from President Biden, over and over again. And yet, Prime Minister Netanyahu seems to be changing his position and, frankly, doesn’t seem to be listening to his most powerful ally. I remind you of the words of President Clinton, who after he first met Netanyahu in 1996 – it was a statement that was laced with expletives, he said, ‘Who is the bleep bleep superpower here? Who does he, Netanyahu, think he actually is?’ Nothing has changed.

David Satterfield: Well, everything has changed. The reality on the ground in Gaza, the reality on the ground in Israel, socially, politically, economically, much has changed. No side is advantaged – none – by the continuation of this kind of fighting. A ceasefire is in everyone’s interests. Now you ask about Prime Minister Netanyahu, the role of diplomacy, at the highest levels, is to deal with situations that are intensely frustrating, that are difficult, not the easy ones. We will continue to remain focused, laser-like, on this process.

Matt Frei: After October 7th, President Biden embraced Israel as an ally and a friend, and then added a warning: ‘Do not commit the mistakes that we committed after 9/11.’ Isn’t that precisely what the Israelis have been allowed to do by your government?

David Satterfield: The president has been very clear. We support Israel. We support its right to defend itself. Nothing has changed since the president’s October 18th visit to Israel in that regard. But the ceasefire now serves Israel’s interests. It serves US and international interests and it serves, above all, the interests of the people of Gaza as well as the Israeli people. We will continue to do all that we can to push forward that goal.

Matt Frei: The Israelis, with the attack on Tehran that killed the political leader of Hamas, have pushed Tehran into a corner where they may feel obliged to react. This may happen in the next 48 hours or so if the talks in Doha fail. How dangerous is this moment? Can you – can the Americans stop it from sliding out of control?

David Satterfield: I’ll do the second part of your question first. Look at the extraordinary efforts that we have made, both unilaterally in terms of military deployments, which are quite exceptional, as well as diplomatically, and assembling a galaxy – a constellation – of allies, all of whom are saying the same thing. ‘Don’t escalate this situation.’ Now, I don’t believe for a moment that a regional conflagration is inevitable. We feel quite the opposite. It can be avoided. But in order to avoid it, in order to avoid a risk which is perhaps not intentional, but can be the result of misadventure or miscalculation, it is essential that two things happen. First, that there not be the extraordinarily risk-taking step by Iran and Hezbollah to attack Israel, and secondly, that a ceasefire moves forward.

Matt Frei: We’ll wait and see if that happens in the next few days in Doha.